Summarize Yourself

blackstar wrote:

Dammit Taxer quit beating me to the punch lol.

=D

See, the fallacy with that argument is no one knows. I am largely a result of my parents, who are christians. Just as if they were jewish, I would likely be a jew.

I am just trying to think of some reasoning, or possible explanation, for existence or an intent of a supernatural, omnipotent being.

The thing is, if God gave us free will, he wouldn't know. Or at least that's my theory. The thing about humans is we want to find a meaning of life. Is life really fulfilling for you if it's life, then nothing?

What would be the point, if there wasn't an ultimate goal.

Another fundamental reason for my beliefs is that the world is so complex, and humans strive to understand it, but we do not understand a tiny fraction of the knowledge out there, and I highly doubt we ever will. I have trouble looking at the complexity of the nature and the world and believing it's just there.

All religion is is faith, because it gives us something to believe in and study. And in the end, it feels better to believe in something than believe in nothing. There is no evidence, other than ancient texts that, for all we know, could have been written by kooks on opium. So you can sit there and say there is no God, but I love theology and studying life and philosophy, and there is nothing that proves there isn't a God. So i will continue to study, not only my own religion, but I would love to study world religions and ancient religions, because they are all theory and ideas of people.

Here is another question for you: How does God work if he is timeless?

...but yes the companion explanation is probably the most intuitive.

Well my thoughts on life aren't incredibly interesting unfortunately. It's pretty much all impersonal and anything else is just me making commentary or stating preferences. I'd say the purpose of life varies from person to person...but in general it is just to live a good life, however good may be defined. For me I just want to peace of mind and freedom of mind. I feel like I'm way too negative internally. I can improve sometimes but it comes right back soon enough.

Idk, I think that Karl Marx put it best by saying that religion is the opiate of the people. It just exists so you don't realize how fucked you're getting in life.

If you guys want to debate maybe it should be done somewhere else like in a new thread. It's technically against the rules but as always it's up to you guys to make it work if you want to try to do it. If you can do it respectfully then go ahead.

Axeforhire wrote:

See, the fallacy with that argument is no one knows. I am largely a result of my parents, who are christians. Just as if they were jewish, I would likely be a jew.

I was born a Catholic. I decided to think for myself.

Quote :

I am just trying to think of some reasoning, or possible explanation, for existence or an intent of a supernatural, omnipotent being.

Nature: shit happens

Quote :

The thing is, if God gave us free will, he wouldn't know. Or at least that's my theory. The thing about humans is we want to find a meaning of life. Is life really fulfilling for you if it's life, then nothing?

What would be the point, if there wasn't an ultimate goal.

There is no "point" in life. We live, we contribute what we can to our species, and die. Simple as that.

Quote :

Another fundamental reason for my beliefs is that the world is so complex, and humans strive to understand it, but we do not understand a tiny fraction of the knowledge out there, and I highly doubt we ever will. I have trouble looking at the complexity of the nature and the world and believing it's just there.

So we should stick a divine being in the place of the unknown?

Quote :

All religion is is faith, because it gives us something to believe in and study. And in the end, it feels better to believe in something than believe in nothing.

No, it really doesn't.

Quote :

There is no evidence, other than ancient texts that, for all we know, could have been written by kooks on opium. So you can sit there and say there is no God, but I love theology and studying life and philosophy, and there is nothing that proves there isn't a God. So i will continue to study, not only my own religion, but I would love to study world religions and ancient religions, because they are all theory and ideas of people.

It should also be noted that many of these have been translated tons of times, and there are also a lot of books not in the Bible, thus making the Bible an edited book. People are dumb.

You should watch The Book of Eli, and pay attention to what the antagonist wants to do with the Bible. I think it's similar to people in ancient times.

My theory about God time and earthly time is this: When a person dies, say Michael Jackson (Did you all know he died?!), he goes directly to heaven (or hell). But that is because time is infinite for god. Say god wants to do something on earth, say make the oceans or something, it happens instantly for him, but can take time for us. Such as when the earth was formed, and the other planets, it took time for things to develop. But since God time is infinite, it takes no time at all for him.

So with something like death, Michael Jackson dies and goes directly to hell, where everyone how goes to hell is already there because the time ration is too massive for us to comprehend. The same goes with heaven. So that way, God would already know because it would have already happened in heavenly time.

The bible says that heavenly time is infinite, so that would indicate eternity. No end, obviously. Which would indicate that the time that it takes for one thing to happen in heaven would take much longer on earth. The creation of a creature, for one, can take quite a while on earth. But in heavenly time, if conception occurs at a set time, would take an instant. Not even enough time to even blink your eyes.

This is all very confusing, but that's essentially my theory. Death, life, the ways god works.

Master Cthulhu wrote:

Axeforhire wrote:

See, the fallacy with that argument is no one knows. I am largely a result of my parents, who are christians. Just as if they were jewish, I would likely be a jew.

I was born a Catholic. I decided to think for myself.

So your thoughts are powerful enough to determine how the earth was created. You are smart enough to say that you understand how the earth was created, and that there is no possible way that a divine entity created man?

Also, it seems a bit hypocritical that people like you cry about religious nuts forcing their beliefs down your throat, but you are all too quick to say that I'm wrong. Until some scientist proves the exact way the universe started, and proves that there is no way a divine entity can exist, I will continue to theorize and think, rather than give up and say "meh, we live we die. I want a cigarette."

Seriously, if people were open to ideas the world would be a much better place. Yet we have people who are quick to criticize and insult others because they enjoy thinking,

I just simply don't give a damn. And that's my two cents.

The crusades

That is all

blackstar wrote:

I just simply don't give a damn. And that's my two cents.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, and I definitely am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone.

I just enjoy talking about things, and what people believe. Which I guess this forum isn't the right place, pretty much everyone gives sarcastic and asshole remarks instead of actually discussing their views. I like forums for discussion, not forums for attacking everyone when they think differently

Maybe it's just because my parents crammed their beliefs down my throat, and I won't forgive them for a long time because of it.

I'm not a "true" Atheist. I will remain agnostic, but until there is further proof of a God, consider me an Atheist. If there is, in a case, substantial proof of God, then I will change my beliefs. I'm not set on one way of thinking, as I'm still young.

Maybe I'm just tired of trying to explain my beliefs to people, and I'm only human, so it's natural that I argue. We are animals, we have (or had) animal instinct. Our brains are our biggest power, so we use them.

We just have to accept that people think differently than us. The biggest problem in this world, in my opinion, is the blaming of other people for our own individual problems. I'm an extremely individualistic person, and I don't give a fuck about other people's problems. If I'm needed, I'll help them, but I usually try to stay out of other people's affairs. I get extremely angry when people in real life blame things on others when it was their fault.

This is off-topic as well, but while I'm in a rant:

I absolutely hate it when people lie. I, of course, being an instinctive human, break this "law" of mine every once in a while, but I'm not the type of person that will lie to "get out" of things. I have learned that if someone finds out about your lies, then your relations with that person will be strained. I get pissed off when people lie to me. I can't stand it. I will tell them straight that I know they are lying, and that I don't like it when they lie to me.

I'll tell people my exact thoughts. "I think you look ugly in those clothes." "I don't like the present you bought me." So-called "white lies" are just as bad as the "dirty" ones. I can almost always tell when someone is lying to me. It's pathetic what some people are willing to do to get out of a situation.

The only thing is I thought you were just blatantly attacking me. It's bad that your parents try to cram their beliefs down your throat. They shouldn't force anything upon you. That's why I'm an individual christian. I do not belong to a church, and I worship according to my own beliefs.

I think people need to accept each other's differences. If you don't want to worship like I do, that's your choice. If you don't want to worship at all, that's your choice. I am a strong believer in individualism, and personal freedom. I also have a lot of humanist qualities, believing that man has the power to make things better or worse. That is the key to our survival, and our happiness.

But sadly, we have religious fanatics who would kill to change some one's mind, and athiest fanatics who laugh at people who believe in a religion and taunt them. Neither is better than the other, in my opinion, because no one is hurting anyone by believing in something, or not believing in something. They only hurt people by getting violent and shoving their beliefs down each other's thorats.

I'm always open minded but I only change my mind if I like someone's position better than my own. I'm interested in what people have to say. I'm more of a "let's here it" kind of person than a "you're wrong" kind of person. I won't even start to argue religion a lot of times until I let the other person explain to me their beliefs and views on God etc. Also I often work to improve people's arguments and ideas even if they aren't my favorite arguments or ideas.

I wonder if it's possible for a couple of guys to have a religious talk without a bunch of people jumping in just to shoot down religion. Makes me wanna destroy heathens.

A fun fact about the crusades: It was the only way to save the byzantine empire, which is all that kept muslims from overrunning Europe. Saying "god wills it" was the best way to unite Europeans to save themselves from jihads, the pope knew this.
Very good reason to attack someone, crusades are way too misinterpreted, same goes for teh inquisition.

You debate in an open forum and you open yourself to others opinions.

I still don't see the reason in jumping into someone else's conversation about religion just to say there's no such thing.

Axeforhire wrote:

The only thing is I thought you were just blatantly attacking me. It's bad that your parents try to cram their beliefs down your throat. They shouldn't force anything upon you. That's why I'm an individual christian. I do not belong to a church, and I worship according to my own beliefs.

I think people need to accept each other's differences. If you don't want to worship like I do, that's your choice. If you don't want to worship at all, that's your choice. I am a strong believer in individualism, and personal freedom. I also have a lot of humanist qualities, believing that man has the power to make things better or worse. That is the key to our survival, and our happiness.

But sadly, we have religious fanatics who would kill to change some one's mind, and athiest fanatics who laugh at people who believe in a religion and taunt them. Neither is better than the other, in my opinion, because no one is hurting anyone by believing in something, or not believing in something. They only hurt people by getting violent and shoving their beliefs down each other's thorats.

Brother we all have our own beliefs but we should be able to talk about it without telling each other your wrong . I do beleave in a GOD , There were to many times when only " GOD " could of saved me . I know im going to hell for the things i did in the corp but " GOD " saved my ass more than once ..

Actually we weren't debating but anyways I digress...

I prefer people set their heart aside before they decide to start a fight. It's a big deal...I rather such big deals not be left to the whims of the mind or simple misunderstandings that were never sought to be untied.

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

the finest indeed.

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

I got to Eagle.

PortraitOfSanity wrote:

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

I got to Eagle.

Congratulations Brother.

Any one Order of the Arrow?

i don´t have the position to criticize anybody believe,but for my persenal position i don´t believe in any religion,.......and theres so many blood running in the centurys,bout differnt believings and will run in future times....

@ hate,don´t make your own hell in life,i´m shure you do a lot good things too,and this is whats counts,to see the bad things from the past and if you don´t repeat,bad things helps you to be a better person,and than they bad turns into good,and if god exist,he see this and you´re not go to hell......


(fuck ,i cant exactly describe in english,what i have to say,i have to learn more)

Axeforhire wrote:

Master Cthulhu wrote:

Axeforhire wrote:

See, the fallacy with that argument is no one knows. I am largely a result of my parents, who are christians. Just as if they were jewish, I would likely be a jew.

I was born a Catholic. I decided to think for myself.

So your thoughts are powerful enough to determine how the earth was created. You are smart enough to say that you understand how the earth was created, and that there is no possible way that a divine entity created man?

No, just not foolish to believe what was rammed down our throats as children and realise, that with so many conflicting religions and beliefs, there most likely all wrong.

But, at the same time yes. There's this thing called the Big Bang Theory, you may have heard of it. The earth was formed from dust and gas about 4.5 billion years ago. Man is an evolution, he wasn't simply created. Its one thing to have faith, but if you believe in Adam and Eve, then the word delusional comes to mind.

Athiests/agnostics also aren't arrogant enough to even to begin to try to contemplate what god (if such a being exists) really wants.

I'm the same Cthulhu, but worse, as I come from a family of Irish decent, and my mother is a fairly strict Roman Catholic.

^^I Agree^^

Kriov wrote:

PortraitOfSanity wrote:

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

I got to Eagle.

Congratulations Brother.

Any one Order of the Arrow?

Vigil actually.

Don't care about your faiths
Just be good
Although if you guys are serious about loving satan I roll mine eyes. Then I shall pass a beer.
Your beer, I'm not godamn sharing

Kriov wrote:

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

the finest indeed.

hahaha thanks chap

PortraitOfSanity wrote:

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

cpngrats fellow eagle. you and i and i beleive blackstar are among the finest

I got to Eagle.

no fucking way. i mean that in the highest of respects lol
you are outside the states right? arnt you in europe somewhere?



and as far as the religion debate.....
death is incredibly scary. since humans have imaginations and active brains...i think we we so horrified of nothingness....of the bugs...that we created this safe haven to go when we die. hell, catholics made it easy, as long as you are forgiven, you get to go to heaven
i think humans' greatest gift is thought, but at the same time it is our curse.

I don't really see the point of you two arguing and it doesn't really matter what either of you will say because I don't think that will change your guys opinion just give it a rest and move on.

The internet is made to argue and challenge things

But I don't really see the point of arguing about this topic since they both have too very strong views and I know that no matter what points will be given they won't change and because it won't lead anyone anywhere and usually these kinds of arguments become worse to the point where you have to lock the thread

Forums will be forums

Just saying...

Just take a look at my smile

so, how about them dogers?
and the weather?....raining here. one of the 2 times every other year it rains.

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

you are outside the states right? arnt you in europe somewhere?

Nah, Chicago.

thaaaats right
congrats nonetheless

and yes, i made it to brotherhood.....wasnt terribly popular as a young scout, so you know that it affects your ability to be tapped out.
well, i never went to any meetings and the week before i was able to earn brotherhood i basically did all the requirements the week of that camp out.
wanted vigil, but i heard all the achievements all those people had and i was woefully average. some serious smart and good people get vigil.

Well Axe and I were having a conversation, then some people started to talk about other things, and now we are talking about how it's a useless conversation etc. etc. and burying it with small talk. I don't think these minor inconveniences should close such an opportunity to carry an interesting conversation. I suppose it could be continued through PMs...which is kind of what I thought in the beginning, but sometimes I'm overly optimistic.

Idk, there are just select individuals who want to jump in and antagonize others. VR asked me about my beliefs, so I was sharing them. I don't care if you agree, think i'm delusional, or whatever. Just because I'm a christian doesn't mean I won't kick your ass! (Milkman Dan reference)

Anyway, just drop it. I enjoy talking about theology, and I even said not necessarily religion. Just life purposes, and for me religion plays a role in my purpose. But we can't even have a decent conversation without some arrogant person talking about how theists are delusional and wrong. I never did anything to hurt anyone by believing what I believe, so it shouldn't concern anyone.

VacuousReality wrote:

Well Axe and I were having a conversation, then some people started to talk about other things, and now we are talking about how it's a useless conversation etc. etc. and burying it with small talk. I don't think these minor inconveniences should close such an opportunity to carry an interesting conversation. I suppose it could be continued through PMs...which is kind of what I thought in the beginning, but sometimes I'm overly optimistic.

We should talk on IM or something. It would be sweet if you had a facebook so we could use the chat feature, since I rarely us instant messaging.

Aside from a few unnecessary posts, I didn't think anyone was being a jackass or anything. It was just distracting that's all.

Well I could use my facebook I suppose but I never really made it for adding friends. Maybe PMs, forum chat, messenger, or mayyyybe facebook...

PMs get too messy, forum chatting is good. Facebook chat is good for privacy, but as long as no one starts spewing hate they are welcome to join anyway. So yeah, we can just use that for discussions of this nature

i dont think anyone was attacking

in fact, axe, i edited a few of your posts cuse there was unnecessary language. i mean, nobody attacked you at all, and as a moderator, i think acting with a higher level of decorum is much better.

i thought this was the best religion topic spawn off we had ever. it actually discussed points rather than people

I used poor language, but I wasn't naming anyone. That's generally what people do when they are pissed to avoid throwing the computer out the window.

Edits weren't quite necessary, I didn't say anything worse than what's said daily.

yes, i agree, but we must practice good behavior. i dont want people think that the admins and mods can mess around and do what they please.

also, in a discussion turned religion, i dont think it behooves anyone to say "fuck ignorant people" or whatever you said that i deemed unnecessary.
dont take it personally. im not upset, just self censorship is all

I understand, I know I sounded rash at times.

I just get worked up in discussions like this when people act like some one with a different viewpoint is wrong. More so this time since me and VR were having an excellent discussion, that went awry really quickly.

Not to sound condescending axe, but patience with discussions about religion takes a lot of development.

Yeah I agree. I try to be open minded, but sometimes people appear to have bad intentions when posting about topics like this.

I just wanted it to be a forum for discussion about personal beliefs (even that was way off topic) and then all of a sudden people started telling me I was wrong lol

i dont think anyone was telling you that YOU were wrong...maybe they were disagreeing with your views...but not a personal attack.

brutality, thynameismetal wrote:

i dont think anyone was telling you that YOU were wrong...maybe they were disagreeing with your views...but not a personal attack.

Exactly. That's what I'm getting at. I'm completely atheist but I still enjoy philosophical discussions, and my beliefs in the non existence of a god are as strong as your beliefs in his existence. You have to take emotions out of it, and look at it academically. People don't disagree with you, they disagree with your opinion, and that can be a hard thing for people to accept.